Modern / performance brake kit options?

[jayson]

Hey folks!

I am in the process of considering some F/R brake options on the 1995 M3 that I am in the process of restoring. All of the current components are looking pretty toasty, and since everything is in need of service I thought it may be worth just upgrading to something more modern. The key for me is I want to keep my DS1's, so it must fit within the 17-inch wheel (running spacer is OK). The car will be street driven, so maintaining the use of the rear parking brake is also a priority.

Current consideration set:

1) 'Massive Brakes' setup with F/R Wilwood Superlite 6pots, (front 332x32mm Wilwood rotor, rear OE rotor or E46 M3 w. Superlite Caliper) - Pics Below
- I haven't run Wilwood calipers in a long while, not the sexiest but good performance for the $$$. No experience with Massive Brakes sets, but they seem to be fairly well regarded amongst track folks? Optional, could run AP calipers upfront for added bling. 😂

2) Porsche 996 F/R with Rally Road Brackets
- Good value for cost/money, though not sold on the rear braking bias that this introduces. The front caliper supposedly has less clamping power than OE.

4) Brembo GT
- Don't want to spend $7k and may not fit the DS1's (info lacking)

5) Power Stop Z23 Evolution
- OE'ish setup w (red) powder coated calipers (which I am not nuts about). Also has cross-drilled rotors which I am not a fan of. Perhaps only the calipers are available?

6) OE
- Rebuild existing or get remanufactured calipers from Rock Auto, Zimmerman Rotors. Lighter on the wallet and less brain damage!

Appreciate any thoughts or other options that you guys have experience with, or if there are things to look out for that I am not considering. I looked at the UUC Wilwood kit as well, but it doesn't seem to have as nice of fitment as the Massive Brakes setup?


TIA!

[Johal E32]

You should strongly consider the AP Racing kit and stock brakes in the rear. It is overkill for a street car, but so is any big brake kit for that matter.

https://angry-ass.com/product-organizer/p/essex-designed-ap-racing-325x32

[jayson]

You should strongly consider the AP Racing kit and stock brakes in the rear. It is overkill for a street car, but so is any big brake kit for that matter.

https://angry-ass.com/product-organi...-racing-325x32

Funny, I just got off the phone w Wade @ AP and he makes a pretty compelling argument for their kit w/ OE rear.

[Jim E.]

The Brembo 332mm front kit 1B1.7004A will fit but you will need a spacer.

Here is the measuring tool and how to use it:

https://www.racetechnologies.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/1B1.7004A.pdf

https://www.racetechnologies.com/article/how-measure-your-wheel-proper-brake-clearance

Didn't realize they were that expensive now. Good thing I bought them 14 years ago

AP brakes are excellent and were a supplier to BMW Motorsport back in the day. So long as you don't mind the look of AP fronts and stock rears.

Performance Friction was another kit but not sure they are still available. You probably wouldn't want those because I don't think the pads had clips so they would rattle like a real race car.

Stoptech is another brand that people seem to be happy with and are a lot less than Brembo.

[jayson]

The Brembo 332mm front kit 1B1.7004A will fit but you will need a spacer.

Here is the measuring tool and how to use it:

https://www.racetechnologies.com/sit.../1B1.7004A.pdf

https://www.racetechnologies.com/art...rake-clearance

Didn't realize they were that expensive now. Good thing I bought them 14 years ago

AP brakes are excellent and were a supplier to BMW Motorsport back in the day. So long as you don't mind the look of AP fronts and stock rears.

Performance Friction was another kit but not sure they are still available. You probably wouldn't want those because I don't think the pads had clips so they would rattle like a real race car.

Stoptech is another brand that people seem to be happy with and are a lot less than Brembo.

Yeah, I am a big AP fan, they (Essex) make an amazing kit for the Carrera T that I have been eyeballing for a while. The E36 kit though is a bit more utilitarian and track-focused, (some NVH increase, not as 'pretty'). Honestly, I am not looking to go totally nuts or even have a giant in-your-face brake kit, just a more modern setup. It seems like options are somewhat limited in that regard.

Re: Stoptech, Centric acquired them in 2006, and then First Brands Group acquired Centric in December 2020. Production has moved, quality is significantly down, and lead times on brake kits are close to 8 months (info relayed to me from some track groups I'm in).

[Johal E32]

Alcon is another great kit and far superior than Stoptech

https://paragonbrakes.com/paragon-alcon-big-brake-kit-front-mono-6-343mm-bmw-m3-e36/

[Jim E.]

Interesting info about Stoptech. Didn't know that.

Maybe this could be as simple as getting the euro floating rotors and you'd be very satisfied with them. Rebuild your calipers, have them re-coated and use ss brake lines and call it a day. When I was tracking the 97 M3 (stock engine) I had back in the day I used the stock brakes with PFC track pads and never had an issue. And I hit nearly every track on the east coast including the the long one's like VIR and Watkins Glen. Never had an issue.

Whether or not you need upgraded brakes is really more a function of speed rather than weight. So if you plan to track your car and have done quite a bit of work to your engine (and/or lightened the car) then the issue is what is your top speed on the straights at these tracks. If you've increased it say by 10 or 20 mph, then you should consider an upgrade. Think of it the way BMW described it. Doubling the weight of your car will only double the kinetic energy but if you doubled your speed then you quadruple the kinetic energy of your car.

If you plan to substantially increase the power and speed of your car and you track it, maybe look for a set of used Brembo's or something and just rebuild them. Parts are all available. That could be a much cheaper route. They (or AP or another brand) may not be that easy to find but they pop up every so often.

[jayson]

Interesting info about Stoptech. Didn't know that.

Maybe this could be as simple as getting the euro floating rotors and you'd be very satisfied with them. Rebuild your calipers, have them re-coated and use ss brake lines and call it a day. When I was tracking the 97 M3 (stock engine) I had back in the day I used the stock brakes with PFC track pads and never had an issue. And I hit nearly every track on the east coast including the the long one's like VIR and Watkins Glen. Never had an issue.

Whether or not you need upgraded brakes is really more a function of speed rather than weight. So if you plan to track your car and have done quite a bit of work to your engine (and/or lightened the car) then the issue is what is your top speed on the straights at these tracks. If you've increased it say by 10 or 20 mph, then you should consider an upgrade. Think of it the way BMW described it. Doubling the weight of your car will only double the kinetic energy but if you doubled your speed then you quadruple the kinetic energy of your car.

If you plan to substantially increase the power and speed of your car and you track it, maybe look for a set of used Brembo's or something and just rebuild them. Parts are all available. That could be a much cheaper route. They (or AP or another brand) may not be that easy to find but they pop up every so often.

All good points - this is 100% me being a diva and wanting a better pedal feel and something that visually presents more nicely. 😂 It sounds like the options that I have in my consideration set are all that's really out there, so I may very well just end up with a refreshed set along the lines of what you mentioned. It sounds like the DS1's in particular are not very friendly to aftermarket kits (may need a bigger spacer than what I am willing to use).

[SamGrant951]

Stay away from Stoptechs, Ill never do that again. On a 65k mile car I replaced the booster, M/C, ABS pump, all lines, new F/R wheel bearings, rebuilt the Stoptech calipers, rebuilt the Stoptech calipers again and added anti knock back springs and still had a soft pedal on track requiring a left foot tap prior to braking zones.

Ripped it all out and installed freshened 996 calipers front and rear with E46M3 euro/floating rotors and all problems gone, pedal feels great again. Other than fiddling / adjusting the parking brake in the rear and in the cabin to make it "feel" factory tight there is nothing to it.

[Braymond141]

Stay away from Stoptechs, Ill never do that again. On a 65k mile car I replaced the booster, M/C, ABS pump, all lines, new F/R wheel bearings, rebuilt the Stoptech calipers, rebuilt the Stoptech calipers again and added anti knock back springs and still had a soft pedal on track requiring a left foot tap prior to braking zones.

Ripped it all out and installed freshened 996 calipers front and rear with E46M3 euro/floating rotors and all problems gone, pedal feels great again. Other than fiddling / adjusting the parking brake in the rear and in the cabin to make it "feel" factory tight there is nothing to it.

That's interesting that you had better success with the 996 kit. I'm not a fan of Stoptech as Brembo GT is the benchmark for a street friendly BBK (no track experience)... but the 996 kit sucks. I would not recommend it for anything other than show.

[SamGrant951]

Yeah Brembo GT or AP was my next step but just wanted to try this first as Ive always had good luck with Porsche calipers and hey if I could avoid spending another 5k why not. I rebuilt them with Racing Brake SS pistons/seals front and rear, front anti-knock back springs and currently using Ferodo 3.12 endurance pads, ducted up front - works great for what it is and Im betting the main improvement for me (after replacing anything and everything I could think of chasing this) came from the monoblock caliper design vs the stoptech.

[Boston Green M3.4.5]

Essex's AP kit drops 8lbs of unsprung weight per front corner. I'd run it just for that reason in a cost-no-object build using bolt-on parts. Outside of swapping to aftermarket wheels, there's no other way to lose that much unsprung weight from off-the-shelf parts in one sitting.

[MrMark]

Stay away from Stoptechs, Ill never do that again. On a 65k mile car I replaced the booster, M/C, ABS pump, all lines, new F/R wheel bearings, rebuilt the Stoptech calipers, rebuilt the Stoptech calipers again and added anti knock back springs and still had a soft pedal on track requiring a left foot tap prior to braking zones.

Ripped it all out and installed freshened 996 calipers front and rear with E46M3 euro/floating rotors and all problems gone, pedal feels great again. Other than fiddling / adjusting the parking brake in the rear and in the cabin to make it "feel" factory tight there is nothing to it.

Did you use e46 rotors in the rear? I’ve heard conflicting stories about getting the parking brake to work with 996 rear calipers.

[SamGrant951]

Yes, it required adjustment out back and I pulled some slack out of the interior as well. Works great.

[Braymond141]

Did you use e46 rotors in the rear? I’ve heard conflicting stories about getting the parking brake to work with 996 rear calipers.

There are zero issues with the parking brake. E46 M3 rotors and done.